head is spinning

[ozysteve]

Guys......hope you are all well.

I have a question, one that has probably been asked a thousand times.....

I have a prado.....

tow ball weight 250kg
braked....2500kg

Now, what do I look for on the caravan.

I am told ATM is the figure I have to worry about and as long as that is about 2500kg, , im good to go......

as I understand it, the lower the TARE of the van, the better it is for me, , ie I can carry more stuff.

Why do some dealers give the GTM........

Second question......if the van had a ATM of 2560kg......am I ok with that...??? one dealer told me you are allowed a 100kg over......ish!!.....

all sounds a bit flaky to me....

can someone spell it out to me, , in simple, plain English.........seems like a mine field for the unwary
cheers all, , ,steve and Sue

[GerryP]

The ATM is the number you need. That is the total, maximum weight of the fully loaded caravan and relates to you car's towing limit. The tare is the weight of the van 'dry', i.e. no water, gas, payload. So, as you suggest, the difference between tare and ATM is what you can carry... including any water and gas.

Unfortunately, the tare stamped on the plate is often not what you'd expect, especially if the van has had things added since it left the factory, such as awning, solar panels and the like.

I would insist on a weigh bridge ticket before parting with your hard-earned so you know you have at least 3-400kg for your payload. You'll find even that will be soaked up quite quickly.

Just a note that many caravans can have their ATM upgraded just by asking. The manufacturers often down-rate the ATM to bring them in line with the limits of smaller tow vehicles. By the same token, you can actually tow a van with a 'stamped' ATM higher than your tug's rating, as long as the ACTUAL gross mass of the van does NOT exceed the tug's maximum tow rating.

Hope all that makes sense...
Gerry

[ozysteve]

Thank you Gerry......

So,

my tug is a Prado, rated at 2500 kgs......that then is the determining factor....

So, the ATM can be anything i like as long as when its loaded with all my gear, water, and gas I dont exceed the Prado rating of 2500kg and ball of 250kgs.

how do people gauge the weight you will be taking....when you havent loaded it into the van as yet?

with the lowest possible TARE to allow my stuff.......I should be laughing.

is that right?

Sue and I plan to long term travel, once some health issues are sorted......in your experiences, what should we allow roughly...for people that like all the home comforts and enjoy free camping

[GerryP]

Yes, but I'd still insist on knowing the ACTUAL weight of the van empty before you buy it, just to make sure. Then you'll know for sure how much spare capacity you really have.

The only way to know how much your loaded van weighs, I've found, is to actually load it up, fill the tanks and the cupboards, then take it to a weigh bridge. You'll find most garden centres will let you drive in and weigh your van for nothing (or next to nothing).

You'll also find out over time that you really didn't need all of the stuff you took with you on your first trip. We are about to embark on a 12 month venture in ours and we still have empty cupboards.

We don't carry much "just in case" stuff any more and anything that's been in the van for a year or so without being used, is left behind.

Gerry

[Jeffie]

Ozysteve,
Rule of thumb is :- for tandem axles 400kg and single axle 300kg of capacity for your food, water,gas etc so if you look at the compliance plate of your van you will probably see either 300kg or 400kg the difference between you vans Tare Mass and the ATM.

GerryP
Please come visit my wife as we seem to carry more "just in case" items than is really necessary ( excluding my beer and all the tools and spares that I just might need one day, of course.)

Jeff.

[GerryP]

Ozysteve,
Rule of thumb is :- for tandem axles 400kg and single axle 300kg of capacity for your food, water,gas etc so if you look at the compliance plate of your van you will probably see either 300kg or 400kg the difference between you vans Tare Mass and the ATM.

GerryP
Please come visit my wife as we seem to carry more "just in case" items than is really necessary ( excluding my beer and all the tools and spares that I just might need one day, of course.)

Jeff.

Ah jeff, let's make one thing very clear... I heartily agree that beer is never 'just in case', it's a necessity!

[Sean]

By the same token, you can actually tow a van with a 'stamped' ATM higher than your tug's rating, as long as the ACTUAL gross mass of the van does NOT exceed the tug's maximum tow rating.

Don't do this...

I'm not sure how often you've had to deal with mobile vehicle inspectors or weigh bridges but here's a bit of advice to keep you golden.

On the side of the road they will use the Gross mass of the trailer as its defacto weight when assessing if it is a legal combination with the towed vehicle, and if your license class is suitable for towing it.

I once had to fly to Port Augusta as a colleague was busted for towing a trailer that exceeded his license class, despite it being unladen. The determination was based upon the gross weight despite it being empty and it's dimensions and type being acceptable to his license class.

[Mick themungrel]

Sean please dont confuse people here by bring heavy trailers and vehicles into it.

A heavy trailer is a trailer exceeding 10t GTM

A heavy vehicle is a vehicle exceeding 4.5t GVM

There would be few if any caravans that fit into the heavy trailer section.

[masterplumber]

Ozysteve,
If you would put your location or at least state of residence in your profile, it would help to fine tune responses.

Here in Qld, your ATM must not exceed 2500 kg full stop.
Of course the actual weight also must not exceed 2500 kg.

One of my daughters worked for Qld Transport for a while.

One of the inspectors came upstairs to get his ticket book so that he could slap a ticket on a Hilux as it had passenger tyres on it.

My daughter whose husband is into cars said to him that it was a nice car and you could tell that it would never be used to carry a serious load.

His reply was that it is regestered as a one tonne vehicle and as such, it must have the correct rims and tyres.

I came accross one bloke who had a Pajero and was picking up a new van. He had the dealer register it as having an ATM of 2500 instead of 2560 kg and arrange for a new manufacturer's VIN plate to reflect this.

He told me that it would be a park van so the payload of 340 would be sufficient.

It can also go the other way.

Saw van advertised in a caravan magazine, with a statement that it could carry up to 380 litres of water.

Obviously aimed at free campers I think.

First thoughts was that with 400 kg difference between Tare and ATM, that once you allow for gas in 2 cylingers it leaves you 2 kg for tooth brushes, s tube of tooth pastd and if you are lucky a change of undies.

Some one suggested that you get it weighed before you pay for it. This us excellent advice.

[masterplumber]

Hi Ozysteve,
Had a glitch with the puter.

I would definately get thd van weighed before you buy it.

Fould out too late that mine was 100kg over on tare with only the extras that were on the contract.

Research where the Public Weighbridges are near the dealer and go with them to get it weighed would be best in my opinion.

Further reading on that Free Camping van revealed that one of the four 95 ltr tanks was for grey water, so you could then carry some rations.

Regards
Gerry