Toyota Prado v6 Petrol auto

[Old Techo]

I did read about your injector service, but I am afraid that sort of work is beyond me at this stage.

Hank, I meant has your dealer done any injector assessment during routine servicing. Maybe that's the expensive service coming up?

One thing Toyota belated included at a major service (I think that is 60k) was to remove the injectors and replace the seats. These are sealing washers between injector and the engine head. As there is so much work in removing the injectors it is obviously a time to replace them if needed.

The valve clearances are supposed to be measured at 60k and to do those the injectors have to come out - hence the logic of combining this work. You may remember from my injector replacement postings that I checked my clearances and some were right on the tolerance limit. They are not adjustable so I bought new buckets (think shims) of the right thickness to fix mine.

So Hank, you may need to put in a bit of overtime to pay for the next service

[GeeCee]

I have been towing two different vans for about 6 years now with my 2005 petrol Prado. (180,000k) It does a great job with my latest a 20" Coromal Princeton. Do I wish I had bought a diesel...yes I do. My tug is a great performer but very thirsty.

I told a friend who knows about these things that I was talked out of a diesel because the Nissans seemed to have a lot of trouble. He said " You were buying a Toyota not a Nissan". I think that says it all.

Two of my wife's friends had to replace the engines on their Nissan tugs at considerable cost when they were actually away. One in WA and one in far north Qld. That turned me off diesels...bad decision. If I had my time over I would buy a diesel Prado.

[hank]

How do you claim overtime on a pension OT?

As far as I am aware nothing out of the normal service, oil change etc, has been done, they did tell me that there were two options for the next service, one being a check where they "listen?" to the injectors or a more visual check, I think the dearer one was around $1,000. I do find it difficult to understand how they can charge those outrageous rates for just a couple of hours work.

I will make further inquiries when I get closer to the service. I think if I had the dealer the same as you did to yours, I would expect the cost to be quite a bit more.




Hank

[Old Techo]

Hank, the injectors are readily tested using software diagnostics. To do them properly they need to do both a cold and hot test. To do the cold test they need your car the night before so they can do a dead-cold test. This gives them the injector feedback readings when cold. Next they drive it and get it up to normal working temp and run the diagnostics again for hot readings. These results will determine the health of the injectors.

As for 'listening'. It is possible they may listen for injector rattle when starting from dead cold. I strongly suspect though they are talking about 'listening' to the valve clearances or tappet noise as we would say in the old days. This is a pathetically cheap and nasty way of measuring the lash, slack or gap between the camshaft lobe and the valve. From memory the acceptable range is 20 to 30 thou.

How anyone can hear these valve noises at all on a rattly diesel engine, let alone assess the gap, has me buggered. They do it this way to avoid having to remove the injectors which as I said is a major and fiddly job. Perhaps 3 hours for Toyota. There are risks with the process. They may reuse gaskets to save money. The injector pipes have a reuse max of 2 or maybe 3 times. They cost maybe $100 each and there are 5.

I have zero faith in Toyota servicing. I had a some warranty jobs plus recalls and found issues with their work every time. I got a quote on my injector replacement and they made no quote allowance for any new gaskets or seals, despite there being a dozen to 20 of em. It was this complete lack of faith that drove me to do the job myself - despite no experience with diesels or Toyota major maintenance. I was worried that I'd taken on too big and difficult a job but spread over a few weeks it worked out perfectly. Done over 15,000 kms since then and my new injectors are still like new according to the Toyota software diagnostics that I run from time to time.

[hank]

I will let you know when the time arrives for the service. I used to do nearly all my own mechanical work but I just dont have the patience or the will anymore, I admire your keeness and had the same drive many years ago but, alas, it has now all but left me.
I am just replacing the front seat covers on my wifes Accent and found it easier to remove the seats than to try to stuff around upside down in the back seat trying to tie the damn things up. That is the extent of my mechanical drive at the moment.



Hank

[Dustypair]

All ,
Thanks for the information you have provided
Not decided yet on which way I will go
Thanks again
Dustypair

[bigal42]

Interesting reading about the Prado,we bought a 2005 gxl diesal in 2007 with 67000 on the clock.
It has now done 185000 klms, most of that towing,touch wood we have had no problems with the injectors,when I fill up I put a dash of Chem-Tech in the tank.did that with the 80 series we had from new,that did over 500000 klms with no injector problems.
fitted a steinbaurer chip in 8yrs. ago,best thing we ever did.Took out the third row of seats,put in a homemade set of drawers ,then took out the second row of seats and made a false floor.
Now have heaps of room for storage.

[Old Techo]

Bigal, I hope your injector feedback values are being checked at regular intervals, say 10,000 kms.

The Prado injectors only became an issue with the introduction of the common rail diesel.

I hunted around looking for some authoritative comments on the CRD. The following is entirely an advert but gives you an idea of issues. Just ignore the advert specific bits....


The Common Rail Diesel (CRD) injection system is the most recent development to achieve ever more stringent diesel exhaust emission standards, but it is currently associated with widespread problems, including engine rattles, expensive injector and fuel pump failures, injector sticking, stalling problems and rapid piston and liner wear. Problems have been documented across a wide range of engine suppliers, including Toyota, BMW, Volkswagen, Nissan and many more.

Cost Effective Maintenance have specifically developed the CRD Fuel Enhancer, to address rattles, and provide smooth operation of fuel pumps and injectors. Used routinely, it will increase the service life of fuel systems and minimize the potential for the above problems.

The CRD system requires a significant increase in operating pressure compared to earlier systems. Fuel system pressures of up to (and above) 29,000 psi are required, and combined with ultrafine tolerances of diesel pumps and injectors, achieve superior fuel atomization for cleaner combustion. There are several factors that place significant additional stress on this system, compared to earlier diesel injection systems...

The increased operating pressure causes higher loadings on equipment, and this places a bigger demand on the fuel’s lubricating ability.

The higher pressure causes much higher fuel temperatures, which can actually degrade the fuel, forming fouling deposits within pumps and injectors. Such deposits interfere with the fine tolerances, to cause sticking, malfunction and injector wear. This risk increases if using biodiesel blends, since biodiesel by nature, degrades faster.

Diesel sulphur levels have been reduced, to reduce smoke emissions. However, sulphur provides lubrication, so lowering sulphur levels can result in greater wear to very expensive fuel pumps and injectors.

CRD engines are designed with much finer tolerances within pumps and injectors, as well as piston to liner clearances, making them much more susceptible to deposits, and also the presence of any water contamination in the fuel.

CRD injectors can be called on to inject diesel into the cylinder up to 5 or more times per firing cycle, so must respond instantaneously!! Any delay caused by contamination or poor fuel lubricity commonly results in excess fuel pumped in. This is one cause of poor fuel economy, but also means more soot out the exhaust, and through the EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) valve, and this is a major cause of choking inlet manifold build up. Mitsubishi Pajero and Triton CRD's have had severe inlet coking problems, but can be controlled using the CRD Fuel Enhancer/Flushing Oil Concentrate value pack. Naturally coking can extend into the combustion chamber, exhaust and turbo areas as well. For this, the FTC Decarbonizer needs to be run in the diesel, and during combustion, it will burn off deposits from these places.

CRD Fuel Enhancer provides strongly enhanced fuel lubricity, superior deposit control for fuel pumps and injectors, and exceptional anti-rust/anti-corrosion protection. While it’s recommended as a routine preventative step for CRD engines, it has been shown to eliminate severe injector rattle, restore operating performance and economy. It is designed specifically for Common Rail Diesels, but is suitable for all diesel engines. It is not recommended for petrol engines.

Many Common Rail Diesels are also prone to building high levels of soot in the oil. For this reason, we also recommend using the Flushing Oil Concentrate. Look for the CRD Fuel Enhancer/Flushing Oil Concentrate Special (CRD/FOC).

[GeeCee]

Have 2005 petrol Prado towing a 20' Coromal. Does the job easily but savage on fuel. Around 22lph. Should have bought a diesel but was talked out of it by a mate when two lots of friends blew motors a long way from home in Nissan Patrols. Spoke recently to an engineer mate of my wife and told him the story of why I didn't buy a diesel. He said you should have, the big difference was that I was buying a Toyota.

[A'van]

No. I haven't got a Prado, but I did have a Ford Falcon that i got converted to gas and saved a fair amount money by doing that, I did get a good rebate so the conversion didn't cost me a lot, I don't know how that works today.
I know you can't get gas everywhere, but if you have both it's ok.
Has anyone got a Prado with gas on the forum, how do you like it?

Hans

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM_fMLv_Q9o