Sal firstly, there is no issue to the quality of the product at all, and quite sure it is a fine product. No, it is definitely not an Australian invention. The question is to the installation of the hot water tap in your caravan. The chances of having a *FULLY* qualified electrician working in a Jayco outlet is .00000001% to NIL. The guy may at best may hold a third class electrical licence, also known as a 'disconnect reconnect' or 'S' class licence. That does *NOT* allow the installation of new equipment other than plugging a unit into an existing power point - not changing a power point, not replacing a 15A plug with a 10A. The issue is, your installations chances of been legal and compliant to the electrical code would be zilch/nada/none/no chance to .000000001% and I will go with the 'no chance'. The hot water system requires a 15A outlet. I cannot see under the code how you could possibly have another 15A dedicated outlet fitted in your caravan.

It would certainly not be insulting to the electrician, as by law he should have supplied a new compliance certificate if there was a new 15A outlet installed. If he was a fully qualified electrician he would be derelict in his duty as an 'A' grade electrician not to supply a new compliance certificate. Reason we know your installer is far from a 'quality installer'.
I think we could safely say your idea of a 'quality installer' and my idea of a quality installer twains shall never meet.

I think I could safely say, the hot water unit installed in your Jayco would not comply with the electrical code and would be illegal, and what is more a potential danger. Because to date you have not had any trouble with the wiring, it does not mean there is not deterioration or some damage to the electrical components supporting the hot water tap unit and could cause failure to fire later on.

I would love to be proven wrong, but I doubt it.

Still cant stop laughing at Motorman's and Dalton's crap. BUT. Listen up!!! Apart from the insults, if what he says is true then Sal you would be in serious trouble insurance wise if something went wrong.. I would think it would be in your best interests to heed his advice and get a certificate. Insurance companies look for any way they can to avoid claim payouts.
Jock

Sal,
I have total respect for my insurance providers and on past experience I would in your situation give them a call with all documentation and detail to hand explain the situation.
There may not be a problem in their eyes.
You have after all had the work done in good faith by what you knew as an approved dealer.
Take it easy.
Shaggy Dog

Hi Motorman,

You make a good point about the electrician's qualifications. Again, I reiterate, that it is impossible to know the quality of the tradesperson with 100% surety. You can only go on their listed qualifications, word of mouth and experience. You would probably find that we do, in fact, have similar standards in tradespeople after all. I know very little about caravan electricals. It is obviously an area you are most proficient in. Gives you a clear advantage of what to expect from an electrical installer. That is stating the obvious. I can only follow their advice and trust in their abilities. What else can the public do?
The whole discussion does raise some very interesting points regarding caravan work and the stance of insurance companies.

However, because wiring can be so important re fires, I will ask the installer for the compliance certificate. If he declines, then I will know about the calibre of the person and standards of the firm involved. Learning from experience. I will also get another elctrician to check it and report to me regardless. You may be correct that it is illegal. Then there must be thousands of airconditioners, smoke and CO alarms, entry alarms, etc, etc, wired into caravans that are in the same boat. That's a lot of illegal items out there! Why are these units being sold at every major caravan show, Camec, Brisbane Camperland, etc, if it is impossible to have it wired up legally? There are ads for it in this very magazine, too. Seems absurd to me.

It may be of interest to others to know that I contacted CIL insurers an they do not exclude these units from being insured. As long as it is listed as an "added on permanent fixture" and it was installed by a "licensed electrical installer". They don't require a compliance certificate for this particular tap. Suppose it's like all insurance companies though. There is always a grey area and nothing is 100% absolutely covered. They can always find something to dispute.

Anyway, let's hope we don't have any dramas. You never know who did the wiring in your caravan, from new, do you? Could be the first year apprentice. You can't cover everything. Again, we rely on good faith to some degree.

We will keep enjoying the convenience of the hot water on tap, and hope it gives us many more years of safe hot water! The unit itself does have all Australian Safety Standards. I'm not going to dwell on the "what ifs" or shoulda, coulda woulda. Just live for the moment and enjoy life. If you watch Aircraft Investigations, you'd never get on a plane and fly anywhere again...it is scary!

Thanks for your advice. Shame the discussion caused so much angst between some of the members! Get out in your RV's and hang loose!!

Regards,
Sally

Sal there is a *big* difference installing a piece of electrical equipment AFTER the caravan has been manufactured. When they fit air-conditioners and other equipment to caravans during building, the installation is designed to comply with the code for the equipment fitted at the time of manufacture. For example your caravan with a roof air-conditioner will more than likely have two circuit breakers. My caravan bought without an air-conditioner only has one circuit breaker. Yes, I did install an air-conditioner, but my air-conditioner is an inverter split system and plugs straight into a standard 10A power point and consequently needed no modifications to the 240v electrical system.
I have heard SECOND HAND that Jayco will NOT install these hot water taps in their caravans due to the electrical load. Would be interesting to get this qualified from Jayco.

While anybody can advertise and sell something, it does not necessarily mean you can use it - DAFT I know, but some of the laws we have are crazy. I seem to remember in the adverts they do state they are 15A.


No, I don't have a bloody clue, but I do have the all important 'Compliance Certificate'. At the end of the day, that is all that matters if something goes wrong. If there was an electrical fire in the 240v system, and it could be so proven, the issue would be the problem of the licensed person who signed off the compliance on the wiring.

Sal the RV industry is filled with dodgys at every turn, and finding *competent* trades people is *unbelievably* difficult. There is a lack of formerly trained or qualified staff with-in the industry. Try and find a licenced electrician that will work on a caravan, finding a gas fitter is another nightmare of a higher magnitude. The electrical and gas authorities are directly and totally to blame for the problems. However, they work on the principal if they never ever do anything they cannot be accused of failing and consequently they do nothing. The RV industry association spend more time designing their fraudulent advertising and don't care a damn about anything else other than image and parties. The RV industry is nightmare of consumer problems and issues at every turn - Who you gonna call, well Ghost Busters is about your only hope.

MOTORMAN (DAVID)
Why do you continually do this to yourself,just because people have an opinion that differs from your own it it not a personal attack on you.

Tom, David is a very intelligent bloke that does have a lot to offer,he has his own forum on Yahoo because he is a TROLL,A SERIAL pest who because of his disgraceful outbursts has been banned from every forum on the net, many times over, but he keeps popping up,it's impossible to get rid of him.

Avachat.

OK, lets try to get this back on track without all the rubbish.
Question.......
In my current model Discovery, can I have an electrician run an extra cable from the 15amp input on one side of the van to the other side, and then fit a 15amp power point under the sink to accept the RV Hotwater tap mentioned earlier ?
I'm not an electrician, so a simple answer would be good.
Simple...........remember.

Lance

Lance,
I am no domestic electrician nor am I up to speed on caravans but all circuits should have some form of protection to prevent overload.
Most vans I have had were fitted with a single circuit breaker which I gather is rated at 15 amp.
If your tap heater was wired on the output or downstream side of the CB your total draw for the van circuits including the water heater would remain at 15 amps, heater and toaster on together would in all probability pop the breaker.
If your van has a single 15 amp input plug to wire your tap heater on the input side or upstream side of the CB or the input plug itself would be illegal and dangerous as there would be no protection for the tap heater circuit bar that on the external source, park power pole CB for instance, which may not exist or even be unreliable from some I have seen.
I hope thats of some help.
Sure to be someone out there to contradict this but when it comes down to it circuits must be protected to prevent overload. The fact your single input lead is usually rated at 15 amps is a good indication of what you can and cannot do.
Take it easy.
S.D.

Lance I believe you can have this done as one of my mates had this done. When mine was installed a second line wasnt added and like sterling sal it works fine with quite a few things on at same time. (Mine and my mates were completed by an electrician) However i have since found out it would have been much cheaper to have it installed at my local caravan place. and they also have it checked by eectrician or something like that.

As an after thought I have to add i was at last years Caravan Show in Brisbane when a guy from the electrical safety board showed up (I think that was where he was from or it might have been QLD electrical not sure but something like that) and interrupted the young girl there selling the rv hot water (obviously sent there by someone) He found the unit to be legal and actually was going to order one himself. I was there when he was asking about how to fit them etc.

Please note this is only what i overheard and if you know differently thats fine please dont jump down my throat for it. . (im still a little nervous about posting here)

Hi Guys,

Today we had a specialised RV electrician check the hot water tap installation. He said it was fine plugged in as it was, as long as we didn't use heavy draw appliances, such as the kettle at the same time as the hot water. He also said if you want to satisfy the insurance people completely, it would be best to hardwire it into the van electrics. We decided to do this, as you can never be too careful with those insurance firms and this would be absolute. It took him 45 minutes and I have the compliance certificate saying the whole van electrical system has been tested, (including listing the number of double powerpoints and the air con) and that such work complies with the requirments of the electricity act.

So I suppose it might be a bit of overkill, but that's the end of it now and we have complete peace of mind. The units do work fine just plugged into the point, though. It draws about 12 amps, so as long as you aren't using anything much else (although we did), you should be fine, Lance.

Haven't got his invoice yet, but I suppose you can never put a price on safety or complete peace of mind regarding insurance coverage! It's a great unit, go ahead and get one, as you won't regret it.

Hope that is the end of the saga regarding installation of this tap now and my little journey has helped others!

We're going to actually use the van now and head off to the Northern NSW Coast for a good surf and the obligatory r and r.

One last thing. How many people are plugging their van into the house power to charge up the battery and run the fridge before they go, using a 10 amp adapter? We just got the electrician to fit a 15 amp powerpoint to the switchbox. Apparently it is illegal to use the adapter and can eventually melt it. Didn't know that either, so just a note to others.

Hang Loose guys,
Regards,
Sally