200 Series V8 Diesel Economy

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J.REEVES
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Re: 200 Series V8 Diesel Economy

Post by J.REEVES » Thu May 11, 2017 5:12 pm

Coming home from Bunnings last week in my old work cloths stopped in at a Toyota dealer to just have a look!

One hour later I was signing up for a new Sahara. They offered me a private sale price for my 2006 VX 100 Series which I did not expect.

Picked the new vehicle up on Monday (took a hole six days to get it) and am now trying to work out how to fit my draws, CB, tyre pressure monitor, aux battery, brake controller, Anderson plug, tow pack, air bags and possibly a ARB bull bar but not too sure about the bull bar as there are cameras, long range radar and park assist detectors in the front not to mention the stuff to activate the air bags and belt tension devices.

No longer a matter of splicing into wires for the tow plug you need a Toyota wiring loom with a black box and all the plugs are in the sides behind the interior side walls.
Anyway I have plenty of time to sort it.

JR
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A'van
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Re: 200 Series V8 Diesel Economy

Post by A'van » Thu May 11, 2017 8:03 pm

Congratulations.
We did something similar. One day out for a drive i said to my wife, this car got a noise in the front i don't like, it could cost us a lot to fix, how about looking at a new one, she said ok.
So we stopped at Toyota, 2 hours later we had a new car, mind you, we had to get up and start to walk out before we got the right deal. :lol:

Have fun installing all your gadgets. I like the smell of a new car.

Hans
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jessdogster
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Re: 200 Series V8 Diesel Economy

Post by jessdogster » Fri May 12, 2017 9:35 am

Saw your query on LCOOL JR
Thought you must have taken the plunge ;-)
cheers
Jdog

Cyclone
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Re: 200 Series V8 Diesel Economy

Post by Cyclone » Fri May 12, 2017 4:17 pm

Congratulations JR. Thay are a nice rig.
I went to the other side a bought the new Nissan Y62 Pootrol. Picked it up last Monday.
Sid
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Bussy
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Re: 200 Series V8 Diesel Economy

Post by Bussy » Fri May 11, 2018 2:04 pm

After 6664 km trip to FNQ and back towing my approx. 3.5 tonne van and with my 200 Cruiser fully loaded - I can report the following.

Best fuel economy was 19.79 litres/100 between Wilcania and Irymple via Broken Hill.
Worst fuel economy was 28.55 litres/100 between Charleville and Bourke dodging emu's and roos which was/had lots of speeding up / slowing down.
Average for whole trip 22.43 litres/100 at $ 1.425 litre.

I tow at the posted speed limit and very, very rarely use the cruise control as it seems to want to sit in the wrong gear (too low = higher revs). When I say the speed limit I feel that the combination tows well and seems happier to sit on 103-105 in a 100 zone when RPM is about 1900.

Cheers - ALLAN
Computer Engineer. 200Series TTD Altitude SE with TAJ in tow.
Home built 21.6ft off-roader "The Taj Mah AL".
Steel Chassis, Simplicity Suspension, Aluminium Frame.
Paulownia Cabinetry, 800 W solar.
Its finished, now WE retire.

Peter Aawen
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Re: 200 Series V8 Diesel Economy

Post by Peter Aawen » Mon May 14, 2018 11:34 am

Bussy wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 2:04 pm
..........

I tow at the posted speed limit and very, very rarely use the cruise control as it seems to want to sit in the wrong gear (too low = higher revs). When I say the speed limit I feel that the combination tows well and seems happier to sit on 103-105 in a 100 zone when RPM is about 1900.

Cheers - ALLAN

Even if you continue to avoid using cruise control while towing (altho that IS one of the significant advantages most find in having cruise control fitted at all) you might want to reconsider your gear choice while towing, Alan. That 'wrong gear (too low = higher revs)' thing is almost certainly the very carefully designed & fairly critical 'transmission saving' feature built into the vehicle by Toyota engineers in order to avoid running too much torque load thru any over-drive gear!!

When it's doing that change down/higher revs thing that you don't like, effectively the engine & transmission control units are teaming up to avoid using the over-drive gears AT ALL while towing, instead working to keep the trans in the stronger 1:1 ratio or 'under-drive' (ie, lower) gears, as the torque load that towing in any over-drive gear puts on those smaller & less robust gears in the transmission is very damaging over time - and it's not all that much time when compared to the potential life of the trans otherwise!! Check your glovebox manual, there is probably a section on Towing in there, and it will almost certainly warn you somewherd in there NOT to tow in Overdrive or you risk expensive transmission damage, which is why when left to their own devices or you select cruise, the ECU's & TCU's on 200 Series with autos simply won't let you push too much torque thru overdrive whilst towing!! Sure, you can choose to manually over-ride that 'self-preservation feature', but the relatively few $$ you save thru getting slightly better fuel economy in the relatively short term thru using over-drive gears when towing are likely to be significantly outweighed by the fairly substantial $$ & time off the road costs of having to re-build your trans much sooner than you or the manufacturer ever expected!! And then there's the potential for significant vehicle & van recovery costs & accom etc while you sit around the back of Bourke waiting for parts or a mechanic etc!! Even at the worse fuel economy figures returned when running the slightly higher revs needed in the lower non-overdrive gears, you can drive a helluva long way on the $$ you've saved by NOT needing to spend all those $$ on rebuilding the transmission!! :shock:

In short, you shouldn't be towing in an overdrive gear at all/ever (except maybe when running downhill with a tail wind but NOT engine braking...) and once you select cruise control whilst towing, your fairly smart well designed vehicle with all its engine & transmission computer controllers will be working towards stopping you from doing something that is pretty expensively damaging in the long run - so there actually IS a valid reason for your vehicle transmission doing what it does in cruise while towing when it drops you out of overdrive; in fact, you should try to emulate that when it's not in cruise too!! Your transmission & wallet will benefit in the long run if you do make it a practice, even if you use a little more fuel as a result! ;-)

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J.REEVES
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Re: 200 Series V8 Diesel Economy

Post by J.REEVES » Mon May 14, 2018 4:25 pm

Hi Peter,
Whilst I understand what you are saying about towing in high gears I think the Landcruiser transmission is very robust even in the overdrive gears. Many of the smaller four wheel drives had failures in the transmission and many would have been due to towing in overdrive.

I believe one of the issues towing in a higher gears and loading the engine is the exhaust temperature. Some people with thermocouples in the exhaust have quoted that running in overdrive can produce up to a hundred degrees difference in the exhaust between say four and fifth gear. That means the turbo’s and engine exhaust system is running hotter than needed.

I also understand what Allan is saying as I have noticed my auto 200 Landcruiser is changing back but I am not really sure what gear it is in or if the torque converter is locked or not, generally it likes 1900rpm but if unloaded runs at 1500rpm or there about.

Probably fifth and sixth gear are overdrive and unless driving up around 105 to 110k's sixth gear does not come into play so often you are in fifth gear which is still an overdrive.

If the manufacture has designed the gear change logic to save the auto transmission then the transmission is under designed in my view.


JR
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Re: 200 Series V8 Diesel Economy

Post by Cyclone » Mon May 14, 2018 5:29 pm

I have read some car owners manuals that say not to tow in overdrive. And I am not arguing against this point. But doesn’t an automatic select it own gears best suited for the job?
Unless the overdrive has been locked in of course. What I am trying to say is if your are driving along in overdrive and come to a hill the auto will drop to a lower gear. So is driving in overdrive really an issue?
Sid
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Old Techo
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Re: 200 Series V8 Diesel Economy

Post by Old Techo » Mon May 14, 2018 7:04 pm

Cyclone wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 5:29 pm
But doesn’t an automatic select it own gears best suited for the job?
Normally yes Sid :D

As mentioned often, I drive using cruise control whether towing or not. I thrive upon it. However on undulating terrain I will often manually move to/from 5th (drive) and 4th to stop hunting.

Hunting is the only annoying issue. I did a search for 'hunting' in my posts and came up with more than I expected....


viewtopic.php?p=42067#p42067

viewtopic.php?p=82822#p82822

viewtopic.php?p=135614#p135614

viewtopic.php?p=186152#p186152
Regards, Old Techo
2007 Prado Grande Diesel Auto
2004 Roadstar Limited Edition

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Bussy
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Re: 200 Series V8 Diesel Economy

Post by Bussy » Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:32 pm

Thank you Peter for your very good reply but you have ignored the fact that just because I choose not to use cruise control does not mean the ECU or any other electronic management system is disabled. It’s still in drive and the management system still works exactly as if it was in cruise control mode. The 200 series has six gears and the two top gears are in fact overdrive gears.

It just pisses me off that it is happily cruising along with my vans weight and in 5th gear (cruise control and the computer in control) at 1900 rpm and then a subtle rise in the road occurs. Computer suddenly decides to kick down into 4th (2400 rpm) and even 3rd (2900 rpm) quite quickly, applies much more power getting the twin turbos into to full song only to realize we are now over the slight rise and doing 105 km (say it was set for 100 km / hr) so now the computer has to back off dramatically causing an engine braking effect and then computer spends the next km or two getting itself back to its happy zone of 100 km / hr - 5th gear and 1900 rpm. Meanwhile another rise appears in the road.

If the cruise control algorithm had a more subtle fade up and fade down, a bit of give or take in the selected speed in these circumstances (say 3%) then it would work much better and I would use it more.
In undulating country I tend to use the excess speed and my vehicles stored energy coming down a rise to assist with climbing up the next.

Cheers - ALLAN
Computer Engineer. 200Series TTD Altitude SE with TAJ in tow.
Home built 21.6ft off-roader "The Taj Mah AL".
Steel Chassis, Simplicity Suspension, Aluminium Frame.
Paulownia Cabinetry, 800 W solar.
Its finished, now WE retire.

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