Gas regs and bottle changing know how

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A'van
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Re: Gas regs and bottle changing know how

Post by A'van » Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:43 am

Hi dieseltojo.

The way i understand it, the gas that we use in a car and what is in a bottle, is the same. ?

So why can't we fill a bottle the same way we fill a car, with the proper connections of course. ?

Hans.
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Old Techo
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Re: Gas regs and bottle changing know how

Post by Old Techo » Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:00 am

Hans, they are generally not the same gas. Pure Propane is used in bottled gas for home and general use. The brew used in cars is a mixture of rubbishy stuff.

At some country/remote servo sites they may both be pure Propane but that is save sending out 2 different delivery trucks.

I used to fill my own bottles from a servo - until the brew changed from pure Propane. The auto-brew burned with a yellow sooty flame and left about 20% of liquid in the bottom of the bottle that would not vaporise and had to be tipped out.
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Re: Gas regs and bottle changing know how

Post by oldtrack123 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:12 am

Old Techo wrote:Hans, they are generally not the same gas. Pure Propane is used in bottled gas for home and general use. The brew used in cars is a mixture of rubbishy stuff.

At some country/remote servo sites they may both be pure Propane but that is save sending out 2 different delivery trucks.

I used to fill my own bottles from a servo - until the brew changed from pure Propane. The auto-brew burned with a yellow sooty flame and left about 20% of liquid in the bottom of the bottle that would not vaporise and had to be tipped out.


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Re: Gas regs and bottle changing know how

Post by mickd » Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:29 pm

Gooday all . Old Techo . About 3 hrs ago i went into the Kleenheat gas depot in Port Hedland [Wedgefield].They supply the majoity of the LPG gas used in the north of WA . It all comes out of the same tanks for vehicles & domestic use . According to the manager this the same as they supply all over WA Regards Mick .
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dieseltojo
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Re: Gas regs and bottle changing know how

Post by dieseltojo » Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:56 pm

You could probably go to 10 different servos over a state and get 10 different mixes of propane and butane and some of that gummy greasy residue is probably more to do with van regulators fowling up than any thing else.
Gas hoses aren't supposed to carry fluids, but obviously have to tolerate corrosive mixtures.. The natural gas in homes does not have the gummy materials that auto gas seems to have in it.

Town supplies are not only filtered but the vapour is not coming right from the source.
I have used auto gas on many appliances due to many reasons and purposes and I must say I have seen no discernible calorific differentiation ( that is the appliance didn't seem to know the difference) and burnt well. At times I have had incomplete combustion from supposedly propane as well.
OT is right on with watching the colour of the flame for combustion. We employ the same basics with an oxy acetylene torch after all.

It can be most noticeable in the Alps where there is more likely to be a separation of gas mixtures due to boiling point of the different gasses being affected by low temperatures.
It usually manifests this effect in the simple act of boiling water. it takes a lot longer.
I always used to take a stove with a decent burner in my deer hunting days into the snow country.
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Old Techo
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Re: Gas regs and bottle changing know how

Post by Old Techo » Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:05 pm

mickd wrote:About 3 hrs ago i went into the Kleenheat gas depot in Port Hedland [Wedgefield].They supply the majoity of the LPG gas used in the north of WA . It all comes out of the same tanks for vehicles & domestic use . According to the manager this the same as they supply all over WA
G'day Mick,

Sounds like you are in the lucky state over there :D

It depends what the primary source of your gas is. In Vic we have the bass strait oil producers and refinery. LPG is a by-product, and in fact in the old days was just burned to the atmosphere as waste, so here we should expect a mix of good and bad, in terms of propane percentage. LPG is also derived from natural gas and you have heaps over there. As DT said, it could be a mixed bag depending upon location.

The stuff that left me with a quantity of liquid would not be an issue in a car as it is constantly shaken about whilst driving.
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Re: Gas regs and bottle changing know how

Post by dieseltojo » Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:16 pm

[quote="Old Techo"][quote="dieseltojo"]DT, your bit about safety valve discharge isn't true. They can be placed such that they will not discharge towards the van or each other. See my pic after yours...

You will have to go to page one to see OTs pick of the gas bottles, but I saw a lot like his set up at the leasurefest today, so I t seems as though things are improving on the bottle installation front.
I wasn't wrong just slightly incorrect. :D again......damn.....
Good one OT... :D
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Re: Gas regs and bottle changing know how

Post by TramcarTrev » Fri Feb 19, 2016 3:56 pm

All very interesting. I however dissagree re the composition of Automotive gas and the stuff they decant into bottles. At my local servo they used to fill both tanks up from the one delivery tanker, now is swap n' go... Bunnings used to actually sell and adaptor from POL to Automotive... At my local BCF which is about the only place you can get a fill vs exchange these days just down from woolworths servo is still toped up by the same tanker that fills Woolies huge Auto tank... I ve seen it...
Also interesting are the requirements for the clearances around cylinders in Domestic situations. My son had 2 x 45kG bottles intsalled at his house in Binalong all done legally... One supplier was happy to do the exchanges and then we discovered that Elgas would do a top up at around half the price per litre of gas so they were contracted out to supply, 1st fill went as expected, 2nd fill was rejected because Elgas claimed the bottles that had been professional installed were not in accordance with their "regulations" and had to be seperated by 30cm. Easy task, cut the concrete "paver" they were sitting on in half with diamond saw and move the bottles each 100 mm, the pigtails were long enough to do this..... But wait there is more, 4th refill the guy tells my son that the bottles have to share a common foundation and gives him a brochure and says that its OK by him but if an inspector wanders along he should fix it up. Disconnect bottles, make up some formwork to fit both bottles, pour a cute little slab, wait for it to cure and put bottles back on it.... Now awaiting a directive that my grandsons handprint in the concrete some how is in breach of the regulations...
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Martin Penwald
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Re: Gas regs and bottle changing know how

Post by Martin Penwald » Sat Feb 20, 2016 8:04 am

Gawwwwwwwwd!

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Martin Penwald
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Re: Gas regs and bottle changing know how

Post by Martin Penwald » Sat Feb 20, 2016 8:21 am

Well done, dieseltojo. Good luck with the troll though.

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